- 阿甲按：Pino博士本次讲座十分精彩，对于了解拜占庭释经传统，关于文字与精义。上帝通过穿戴肉身「道成肉身」，穿戴圣经「神的话」，穿戴被造物「万物都是借着他的话而造」来彰显自己，而我们需要通过这些穿戴看到隐身其中的道，即上帝。这种看见就是默观。现代世界的解经还是流于文字和字面层面，尚未进入属灵的奥秘当中，这是不足的。而教父们的著作，注疏，讲道，神学辩论都是这种默观的体现，我们需要通过教父的视野来理解圣经的深层含义。
- 本讲座讲稿首先通过阿甲的Github项目wenbi初步加工翻译，经阿甲修订而成。若要引用本文，请用以下格式：
Pino Tikhon博士《圣经与教父》，wenbi项目整理，阿甲修订（伦敦：光从东方来，2025年02月28日），本网页网址，引用日期
- 本中文讲稿已获得讲员允许。阿甲的同传，wenbi中Whisper 和LLM「大语言模型」的初步整理难免有错误之处，推荐大家直接看视频。也欢迎各位读者指正。关于引用，也请参考版权申明
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讲稿正文
English
So the title of my talk for today is The Scriptures and the Church Fathers. Another title that we could give to this conversation today could be Acording to the Scriptures. Acording to the Scriptures.
Chinese
今天我的讲座题目是《圣经与教父》。我们今天这场对话的另一个标题可以是《根据圣经》。根据圣经。
English
This a phrase from the creed that we say in church every Sunday and every morning in our morning prayers. So the phrase Acording to the Scriptures is something that’s profesed by Orthodox Christians, by Christians that profes an apostolic faithat belonged to a historical apostolichurch. And it’s a kind of dogmatic theological profesion abouthe scriptures. And it’s one of the only dogmatic statements that we make abouthe scriptures. So if you think abouthe cred, we profes, I believe in one God, the Father Almighty. And we go through this litany of Trinitarian theology. We talk abouthe Father. We talk abouthe Son.
Chinese
这句子是我们每周主日礼拜和每天早晨晨祷时所说的经文。因此，“根据圣经”这一表述是由信仰正统基督教的东正教徒所宣扬的，属于历史性正统教会的一部分。这是一种关于圣经的神学声明，是我们在圣经上唯一的一个神学声明。所以如果你考虑信经，我们宣扬，我信有一位上帝，至高无上的父，子
English
We talk abouthe Holy Spirit. Whathe Son has done in his incarnation by becoming a human being. Buthere’s only one mention of the scriptures. And that’s the phrase Acording to the Scriptures. So specificaly, we say that we talk about the Savior. And we say that he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, sufered and was buried. And on the thirday, he rose again acording to the scriptures. So imediately, the faith in Jesus Christ is contextualized by a belief about scripture.
Chinese
和圣灵。儿子在道成肉身时所做的。但只有一句提到圣经。那就是“根据圣经”这个词。所以具体来说，我们谈论救主。我们认为他因我们而被彼拉多钉十字架，受苦并被埋葬。然后在星期四，他再次按照圣经复活。因此，立即，对耶稣基督的信仰是处于圣经所言的处境中的。
English
So, one of the first questions we wanto ask is, when we say scriptures in the creed, is this the same as the Bible? Most of you have sen a Bible. You probably own one. What is the relationship betwen the Bible and the scriptures? So when I say a Bible, you probably have an image in your mind. The cultures that we live in, our modern society, understands the Bible. Because there is a network of, especialy Protestant Christians who have gone around the world, translating the Bible into multiple languages. And so we get a kind of visceral, visual image of what a Bible is.
Chinese
我们想问的第一个问题是，当我们提到信经中的的经文「Scriptures」时，这和《圣经「Bible」》是同一回事吗？你们中大多数人都看过一本《圣经》。你们可能都拥有一本。《圣经》和经文的关系是什么？所以当我提到《圣经》时，你可能已经在脑海中形成了一个形象。我们生活的文化，我们的现代社会理解《圣经》。因为有一网络，特别是新教徒，将《圣经》翻译成多种语言。所以我们得到一种直观的、视觉上的对《圣经》的形象。
English
And I asume this true in China, as wel as in the United States and in Europe, that we have this asociation withe Bible, with physical artifact, this physical object. So we actualy have this tradition in the United States where they used to put Bibles in every hotel rom. So if you went on vacation, you wento stay in a hotel, every rom that you stayed in would have a Bible in the drawer. And so my kids, when we would gon trips, the firsthing my kids do is lok in the drawer in the hotel to se if it has a Bible. If it has a Bible, they say, this a god hotel. And if it doesn’t have a Bible, they say, this a bad hotel. So this the Bible that we talk about. That’s the physical object.
Chinese
我假设这在中国、美国和欧洲都是真的，我们与圣经，这个物理对象有这种关联。所以我们在美国实际上有这样的传统，他们会在每个酒店房间里放圣经。所以如果你去度假，你住在一个酒店，你每次住的房间都会有圣经在抽屉里。当我们出去旅行时，我孩子的第一件事就是看看抽屉来确定是否有圣经。如果有圣经，他们会说：“这是一家好酒店。”如果没有圣经，他们会说：“这是家酒店不好。”这就是我们谈论的圣经。它是物理对象。
English
But when we talk abouthe scriptures, the word scripture comes from the Latin word for writing, which coresponds to the Greek word for scripture. But when we’re talking about scripture, we’re notalking abouthe physical object, buthe mesage and the comunication that is conveyed inside. So you can draw analogy with a leter, especialy a love leter. If you write to your loved one, to your spouse or somebodyou’d like to mary, and you write a mesage of love, especialy if you’re in a dificult situation, if you’re separated by long distances, if you fear for your life. If people, soldiers at war, for example, might write a leter of love to their spouse, we can distinguish betwen the mesage that’s inside of the writen leter and the physical object itself. So it’s the mesage inside that’s important. But it’s also the mesage, the comunication that’s conveyed there that’s meaningful. And so this the reason that in the Orthodox Church and in the Byzantine tradition, but in other ancient traditions, you se this efort and this labor to presenthe scriptures in a way that conveys how sacred they are.
Chinese
当我们谈论圣经时，“圣经”一词来自拉丁語的書寫，这与希腊语中的圣经相对应。但是当我们谈论圣经时，我们不是在谈论物理对象，而是在内部传达的信息和沟通。因此，你可以将这比作一封信，特别是情书。如果你给你的爱人写信，给你的配偶或者你想结婚的人，并且你写下爱的信息，尤其是如果你处于困难境地，如果你被远距离分开，如果你害怕「失去」生命。如果人们，在战争中的士兵，例如，可能会给他们的配偶写一封爱之信，我们可以区分信件内的信息和物理对象本身。信所传达的信息是很重要的，这种传达沟通也是有意义的。因此，这是为什么在东正教和拜占庭传统中，但在其他古代传统中，你可以看到对圣经以一种方式呈现的努力和劳动，这传达了它们的神圣性。
English
So they might be conveyed in a gold cover or silver cover with jewels. Scribes wil work to iluminate the scriptures in such a way thathey convey the majesty and the beauty of what is conveyed inside. So in the Orthodox tradition, the scriptures are vested like a priest, like the temple itself, in order to convey the sacred character of the scriptures. It’s not something, you know, just a cheap bok that we throw on the chair and we throw on our desk or on the flor. It’s meanto convey what’s inside. So and this idea thathe outside tels usomething about what’s inside is very important when aproaching the scriptures, because the scriptures themselves are an external comunication of something that is deper. So it’s it’s very significant.
Chinese
所以这些经文可能被传达在金制的封面上或者银制的封面上，并用宝石来装点。抄写者会努力地用一种方式来照亮文字，使得它们能够传达里面内容的美和神圣。所以在正统传统中，圣经会被装扮得像神职人员一样，甚至像教堂本身一样，目的是传达圣经的圣洁性质。它不是什么廉价的书，我们把它放在椅子上或者桌子上或者地板上。它的目的是传达里面的东西。所以当面对圣经时，外面告诉我们里面是什么是非常重要的。因为圣经本身就是外部传达某种深邃内容的。这是非常重要的。
English
And perhaps you don’take it for granted in Chinese culture. You’l have to tel me maybe when we have when we discus, you can tel me the some of the diferences betwen Chinese culture and steretypical Eastern cultures. But it is ignificant that God choses to send this mesage to comunicate with humankind that he has created with words in a writen mesage, but in terms of words. So even when you simply hear the scriptures, so if you’re not if you don’t have the physical artifact, but you’re simply hearing the scripture, there ispoken comunication in human language and language is the mode of the revelation. Yeah, right. Buthis and this what language does. So we tend to think of inteligence and rationality in terms in terms that are aplicable to animals in general. So we talk about inteligence, for example, in scientificomunity, we mightalk about inteligence as the ability to use tols, the ability to solve problems.
Chinese
也许你不会在中华文化中，「阿甲」可能在我们讨论时告诉我一些不同之处，当我们讨论时，你可以向我介绍一些中国文化和刻板印象东方文化的差异。但重要的是，上帝选择发送这个消息与人类沟通，「选择」让人「可以创造」文字语言来表达「交流」。 所以即使你只是听到经文，如果你没有物理对象，但你只是听到圣经，那么即使在人类语言中的口语交流，也是一种启示的方式。而这正是语言之功用所在。所以我们倾向于认为智慧和理性适用于一般动物。所以我们在科学社区谈论智慧时，我们可能会谈论智慧作为使用工具的能力，解决问题的能力。
English
But when we lok at what language is for a human being, it’s not simply about an inteligence that can be replicated by animal or by a computer. It’something thatakes what would sem to have no existence for a purely physical creature. And it gives it physical being. And so this aces that language gives us to an invisible world is what we what we refer to as the spiritual world. Language is what gives form outward form to a spiritual reality. And this the basic meaning behind the word like logos, which is a word. But it’s also a comunication meaning. It’s it’s it’s not simply animal forms of inteligence, but it is it’s aces to a spiritual reality, which ultimately means the world in which God exists.
Chinese
但是，当我们审视语言对于人类的意义时，它并不仅仅是一种可以被动物或计算机复制的智能。它不存在于纯粹的物理造物中，「相反」，它赐予物理世界之存有。语言给我们带来了一个不可见的世界 也就是我们所说的灵性世界。语言是灵性实在的外在形式。这就是 “逻各斯 ”这个词背后的基本含义，它是一个词。但它也有交流的意思。它不是简单的动物智力形式，而是通向灵性实在的钥匙，最终意味着上帝存在的世界。
English
The world in which the angels exist, the kingdom of heaven exists is beyond. It lies beyond the physical senses. And we have mind. The human mind is able to aces this reality. So when we lok at when we lok athe Bible, when we lok at scripture, we should think of it as more than simply a comunication of information. Language can be code like computer code, which conveys information. Buthe way that we lok athe language of scripture is as a form of creation and as a form of incarnation.
Chinese
天使存在的世界，天堂的国度存在是超越的。它超出了物理感官。我们拥有心灵。人类的心灵能够接受这种现实。所以当我们看圣经时，当我们看经文时，我们应该认为这是一种信息的交流。语言可以像计算机代码一样传达信息。但我们看待经文的方式是一种创造和"道成肉身"的形式。
English
So creation itself, the world that God creates from the begining, when he creates mater, material things, the mountains and the skies and al the animals is also a form of language. And it’s a form of comunication and an encoding of meaning. when we’re thinking abouthe Bible and we’re thinking about scripture, it’s not simply information that goes from point A to point B. But it is a manifestation or a visualization, as we’ve ben saying, that you could cal a materialization or an incarnation. So the fathers of the church, the saints of the church talk abouthis. We obviously have the bok of scripture, buthe fathers also talk abouthe creation itself, the world that God has made as a bok, asomething that conveys the sameaning and the same revelation of God, the same comunication. So when I lok athe mountains, when I lok athe sky, the sun, the beauty of the created world, this also God speaking. So just like you might have a leter from someone you love, which is a comunication from that person.
Chinese
所以，上帝从开始创造的世界，当他创造物质，山峦和天空以及所有的动物时，也是一种语言。这是一种沟通和编码意义的形式。当我们思考圣经和经文时，它不仅仅是从A点到B点的信息。但它是一种表现或可视化，正如我们一直在说的，你可以称之为物质化或肉身化。所以教父们、圣人们谈论这个话题。显然我们有圣经这本书，但教父们也谈论创造本身，这个「被造」世界是上帝所造的就像一本书，一样传达了上帝的信息和启示，同样的沟通。所以当我看山，看天空，太阳，创造世界的美丽，这也是上帝在说话。所以就像你可能有来自你所爱的人的信件，这份信就是与那人传达消息的「工具」。
English
For example, my daughter made these litle plants. She knits them. And this object is not just a physical object, but for you, this comunicates the presence of your child, the love of your child and yourelationship withat withat person. So for God, there are two books. There’s the book of scripture with literal words. And then there’s the book of creation withe which is the words of God expresing himself visibly, tangibly. So if scripture is a book and just like nature is a book, birds, rocks, the smaler animals, these they both ned to be read.
Chinese
例如，我女儿做了这些小植物。是她编织的。这不仅仅是一个实物，它还传达了孩子的存在、孩子的爱以及我和她的关系。因此，上帝有两本书。一本是字面意义上的经书。还有一本是《创世记》，它是上帝以看得见、摸得着的方式表达自己的话语。因此，如果圣经是一本书，就像大自然是一本书一样，鸟类、岩石、小动物，它们都需要被阅读。
English
Right. We need to see beyond the message, beyond the physical, the outward covering and move in. So animals, for example, interact withe same world that we interact with. A computer would interact with a camera, for example, ses the same world that we se. But what we have uniquely, the human mind has the ability to read these things, not just read the scriptures anderive meaning, but also read the creation and lok athe world and se the meaning there. And so the technical word in Orthodox theology and Christian theology for this proces of reading, of acesing the deper meaning, the spiritual reality or the invisible reality is theoria. We have this word theoria, which means literaly means vision. But it’s the vision that penetrates beyond the surface.
Chinese
正确的。我们需要超越信息，超越外在的，表面的，向内移动。例如，动物与我们的世界互动。一台计算机可能会与摄像头互动，这与我们看到的相同的世界。但是人类心灵具有独特的能力，能够阅读这些东西，不仅仅是阅读圣经并推导出意义，而且还观察这个世界，看到更深层的意义。因此，正统神学和基督教教义中对于这个过程的术语是Theoria。我们有这个单词theoria，意思是字面上的视野。但它是一种穿透表面的视觉。
English
It’s to se what is inside. So theoria can be translated as contemplation, but we’re using it in the concept in the context of interpretation. So, again, this understanding the meaning thathe spiritual reality within it means that when thatwo people could be loking athe same thing, but one person ses the purpose and they understand al the deper conections and the mesage thathis comunicating. And the other person might not, even if you know everything about what you’re loking at. So if I give you a scientific breakdown of this objecthat my daughter made, I can tel you al about it, but I might not understand what it means. And so if theoria is the word for seing into something, being able to perceive the depth of something, the contenthat’s within the Grek word for this would be, again, logos. And this means that when we speak about logos, and again, this word in English, we’re talking about God’s revelation. So God reveals himself not by bring something out, but by alowing us to se in.
Chinese
它是为了看看里面是什么。所以，“Theoria”可以翻译为默观「contemplation」，但我们在这里把它用在解释的概念中。所以，再次，理解内在含义的灵性现实意味着当两个人看同一件事时，一个人能看到目的并理解所有深刻的关系和传达的信息。另一个人可能不理解，即使你知道了一切关于你看着的东西。所以，如果我给你这个物体科学分解，我的女儿做的，我可以告诉你一切，但我可能不理解它的意义。因此，如果我们谈论逻辑，再次，这个词在英语中，我们谈论上帝的启示。所以上帝不是通过带来某物来揭示自己，而是通过允许我们看到里面来揭示自己。
English
Another way of thinking abouthis that in order to reveal himself, God has to clothe himself. He has to put something on the outside for us to be able to penetrate that. So God clothes himself or his comunication in the physical world. He clothes himself in words, in human language, in the bok of scripture. Buthen he clothes himself in the flesh, in human flesh, in the incarnation of Jesus Christ. So all of these realities have a logos, a principle or a reason, a meaning that is beneathe surface. Creation has a logos. The scriptures have a meaning.
Chinese
另一种思考方式是，为了向我们显现自己，上帝必须穿上衣服。他必须穿戴一些外在的「衣服」，为了让我们看穿这些「外在的衣服」。所以上帝通过物质世界来穿戴自己或者「说是通过这种方面与物质世界』交流的。他穿戴上文字、人类语言、圣经。然后他穿戴肉身，即耶稣基督道成肉身。因此，所有这些表层之下有一个道，一个原则或意义。创造有一个道。圣经有意义。
English
And of course, inside the flesh of Jesus Christ is the logos, who is the son of God, one of the trinity. And so we speak of the Lord Jesus Christ as the logos, as the word. And we speak of the scriptures as the word of God. So hopefuly, this helps contextualize what we mean by the mesage of scripture. Sometimes we tend to think of writen comunication in a very one-dimensional way as a comunication of meaning or information. But when we’re talking abouthe meaning of scripture and the comunication of the revelation of God in scripture, we’re talking about something of a diferent order, something spiritual. So when the fathers, the church fathers, the saints aproach the scriptures, one of the results of this understanding of what scripture is, is thathe scriptures become inexhaustible. The depth of meaning never ends.
Chinese
当然，在耶稣基督的肉身中是道，他是上帝的儿子，三位一体的一位。因此，我们称主耶稣基督为道，为「圣」言。我们说圣经是上帝的话。所以希望这有助于阐释我们对圣经意义的理解。有时作为一种意义或信息的交流，我们会倾向于将书面沟通是一种非常单一的方式。但当我们讨论圣经的意义和上帝在圣经中的启示时，我们谈论的是一种不同的事物，是属灵的。因此，当教父、圣人在面对圣经时，这种对圣经是什么的理解的结果之一是圣经是无穷无尽的，它的意义及其深广，没有穷尽「阿甲按：因为圣经所传达的道是没有穷尽的」。
English
Once you go inside, there’s no end to how dep you can go. And so we’ve talked abouthe person of Jesus Christ, the person of the logos, buthere’s another person of the trinity we talk about in this context, in the context of the meaning of scripture and the depth of scripture, and that’s the person of the Holy Spirit. So if the invisible reality of the scriptures, the meaning of the scriptures, are like an ocean, a bottomless ocean with depth, then the Holy Spirit, acording to St. Paul, is the one who searches the dep things of the scripture, of the spirit of God. So Jesus says in the New Testamento search the scriptures, right? Scriptures is this infinite meaning into which we can search and go deper andeper. Sone of the dangers, I would say, for us, especialy when we live in this age of information, whereverything is easy to aces, not only because there are printed Bibles, but because we have computers and phones where it’s easy to aces information, one of the dangers is that we don’t go deper into these scriptures, and we sort of remain athe surface. Even if we are very knowledgeable abouthe scriptures, even if we have memorized the scriptures, and a lot of Western Christians do this, we may not be doing this proces of searching the depths. And so we have to be careful abouthis, because the scriptures can sem very simple.
Chinese
一旦你进去，就有无尽的深度。我们已经谈论了耶稣基督这个人，也就是道；但在这个上下文中，在圣经意义的深度的圣经意义中，还有一位圣灵。所以如果圣经的无形实体的意义，圣经的意义，就像一个没有底的海洋，有深度，那么圣灵，根据使徒保罗的说法，就是搜索圣经含义深处的那个，也就是上帝的灵。所以新约耶稣说去查考圣经，圣经就是这个无限意义的海洋，我们可以深入探索，越来越深。对我们来说，尤其是当我们生活在这个信息如此容易获取的时代，不仅因为有很多印刷版的圣经，而且因为我们有电脑和手机来轻松获取信息，其中之一危险是我们不深入读圣经，我们只是停留在表面。即使我们对圣经很了解，甚至我们已经背诵了圣经「很多西方基督徒就是这样」，我们可能没有做这个探索圣经深度的过程。所以我们要小心这一点，因为圣经看起来很简单。
English
It’s like the surface of the water. It’s kind of one-dimensional. But we have to realize that it goes much, much further than this. Yeah, so again, our problem basicaly, very simply, is that we stay on the surface. So we can learn al the details about what is hapening in the scripture. We might know the story of Genesis. We might know the story of Noah and Abraham, and the prophets, and the Babylonian exile. And we might know the gospels, but we don’t understand whathe deper meaning, the spiritual meaning of these texts is.
Chinese
这就像水的表面。它有点一维。但我们必须认识到，它比这要深得多。是的，所以又到了我们的问题了，我们基本上，非常简单地说，就是我们停留在表面上。所以我们能学到关于表面正在发生的事情的细节。我们可以了解创世纪的故事。我们可以了解诺亚和亚伯拉罕以及先知、巴比伦流放的故事。我们可以理解福音书的内容，但我们不理解这些文本的深层含义，即它们的灵性意义。
English
And one of the measures of whether we are understanding the scriptures in a deper way is whether our interpretation of the scriptures are taking us beyond the stories themselves, and the histories themselves, but also the world that we live in. Sone of the things we se today is a very secular Christianity, where we’re not able to lok beyond the political situation that we live in, the social situation that we live in. And sometimes this could manifest itself in good things. For example, if we’re serving our neighbor, if we’re having healthy comunities, if we have a good church comunity, these can be good things. Buthey might also be superficial. And so when we talk abouthe superficial reading of scripture, we’re notalking about bad things. We’re talking about something that is justhe begining, thentry point. And so the idea of going beyond these things is nothathese things are bad, and we need to stop serving the poor, we ned to stop having a god parish comunity, and we need to stop fasting or something like this.
Chinese
我们理解经文是否更深入的一个衡量标准是，我们对经文的解释是否能带我们超越经文本身和它们的历史，而是关注我们所生活的世界。今天我们看到的是一种非常世俗的基督教，我们无法超越我们所生活的政治状况和社会状况。有时这可能会以好的方式表现出来。例如，如果我们服务我们的邻舍，如果我们有健康的社区，如果我们有一个教堂社区，这些可以是好的。但它们也可能只是肤浅的。所以当我们谈论肤浅的经文解读时，我们不是说这些事情是坏的，「即」我们需要停止服侍穷人，不建立好的堂区，团契，要停止禁食以及类似的事物。
English
The idea is that these are the begining, and these things are suposed to take us to a next step, because we long as human beings for eternity. We long for the invisible world of the kingdom of God. And so we need to go beyond these things. And this what the church fathers and their writings allow us to do. So the writings of the church fathers are a form of theoria. It’s a form of contemplation of scripture that opens up the treasures of scripture and allows us to look within and to go deeper. And so we have the writings of the church fathers. They have writen commentaries on the Bible.They have writen sermons that they preached in church to unfold the scriptures. But they have also writen hymns that we sing in order to unfold the scriptures. And so to give you an example of diferent readings of scripture, when we look the book of Genesis, the book of Genesis talks about the creation of the world, but it will also bring us through the story of Noah, the story of Abraham, which are stories of redemption, which are stories of salvation. And so if we have a superficial or literal interpretation, we stop the stories themselves. So we might be very focused, for example, on how God created the world. And so we might get into a debate about, is evolution scientificaly accurate? Did God create biological theory? Or did God create the world in six days, literal six days, as oposed to milions and bilions of years?
Chinese
我们的想法是，这些都是开始，这些事情应该把我们带入下一个阶段，因为作为人类，我们渴望永恒。我们渴望上帝之国的无形世界。因此，我们需要超越这些东西。而这正是教父们和他们的著作所允许我们做的。因此，教父们的著作是一种神学。这是一种对经文的沉思形式，它打开了经文的宝藏，让我们能够内视并深入其中。因此，我们有了教父们的著作。他们撰写了《圣经》注释，写下了他们在教堂里宣讲的布道，以展开经文。他们还写了赞美诗，我们唱这些赞美诗也是为了阐释经文。举一个不同读经方式的例子，当我们看《创世纪》时，《创世纪》讲述了世界的创造，但它也会把我们带入诺亚的故事、亚伯拉罕的故事，这些都是救赎的故事，是拯救的故事。因此，如果我们进行肤浅的或字面的解释，我们就会停止故事本身。例如，我们可能会非常关注上帝是如何创造世界的。因此，我们可能会争论进化论在科学上是否准确？上帝创造了生物理论吗？或者上帝是否在六天内创造了世界，字面意义上的六天，而不是几百万年、几十亿年？
English
And we’re not able to go beyond these details. So again, these things are not necesarily bad, buthey’re just one level. And it may be the first level, the lowest level of understanding the scripture, if we’re concerned withe physical details of how God created. To give you, I’let you translate that. So another example from the bok of Genesis, if we have the story of Abraham, for the Jewish people, the stories of Abraham are aboutheir ancestors. It’s aboutheir family line. For a Christian, for whom we are not necesarily physical descendants of Abraham, the stories of Abraham and hisons, and hison Isac, and hisons Jacob, these are stories about our spiritual, our spiritual story, our spiritual heritage. In the bok of Exodus, we have the story of Mosescaping Egypt and freing the Israelites from Egypt, from the hand of Pharaoh, who’s a tyrant.
Chinese
我们无法超越这些细节。所以再次，这些东西不一定是坏的，但它们只是一级。而且这可能是理解圣经的第一级，初级的理解上帝创造的时候，如果我们关心的是物理细节的。给你另一个例子。从创世纪的故事，如果我们有亚伯拉罕的故事，对于犹太人来说，亚伯拉罕的故事是关于他们的祖先。是关于他们的家族线。对于基督徒来说，对于我们不一定是以色列民族的后代，亚伯拉罕的故事和他的儿子以撒，和他的孙子雅各，这些故事是我们灵性的故事，我们的灵性宝藏。在出埃及记中，我们有摩西逃离埃及和解放以色列人从埃及的故事，从法老的手中，他是一个暴君。
English
And this, again, this for the Jewish people, this their history, right? This, a Jewish person reads this, they can say, this how our ancestorsufered. This, these are the things that Godid for our ancestors. When we read the scripture, when we read the bok of Exodus as Christians, who are not ethnicaly Jewish, we se the spiritual redemption of our souls from the tyrant, the devil. We se the person of Christ who fres us from thispiritual bondage. Not because, not because it didn’t hapen foreal, not because there wasn’t a real Egyptian Pharaoh or the Jews didn’t realy leave Egypt, but because there’s another deper spiritual dimension to these stories. And so the way we usualy talk abouthese two aproaches to scripture, one that we could cal more superficial and one that’s deper, is the diference betwen literal and spiritual interpretation. Literal and spiritual.
Chinese
同样，对于犹太人来说，这就是他们的历史，对吗？犹太人读到这些，就会说，我们的祖先就是这样受苦的。这就是上帝为我们祖先做的事情。当我们阅读经文时，当我们作为非犹太裔基督徒阅读《出埃及记》时，我们看到的是我们的灵魂从暴君魔鬼那里得到的灵魂救赎。我们看到的是基督将我们从这种灵性束缚中解救出来。不是因为这一切没有发生，不是因为没有一个真正的埃及法老，也不是因为犹太人没有真正离开埃及，而是因为这些故事还有一个更深的灵性层面。因此，我们通常谈论这两种解读经文的方法，一种可以说是浅层的，另一种则是深刻的，这就是字面解释和属灵解释的区别。
English
And the word literal, at least in English, is related to, it comes from the Latin word for litera, which means leter. And so it’s talking abouthe actual text, the actual words that are spoken. So for example, the story of paradise in Genesis talks about a garden, a physical garden with a physical tre, and it’s a physical space. This the literal interpretation of the text. And so the spiritual interpretation begins from the literal. It doesn’t abandon the literal interpretation, but it begins withe literal and it goes deper. And so for example, withe tre and the garden in Genesis, the garden of paradise, we lok athe spiritual reality of the knowledge of God and the invisible kingdom of heaven in which our minds and our souls can participate beyond the physical. So when we talk about literal versuspiritual, we’re not saying thathe literal doesn’t exist. We’re saying thathe literal is justhe begining, it’s justhe surface level, and the spiritual goes beyond it. And again, the image is that of outward clothing. So if the logos, if the word clothes himself in flesh, that means that he realy does have a human body. The word, the son of God realy does take on a human body. And this human body reveals him to us, buthere’s alsomething beyond the human body. He’s not just a human being. He’s not just physical. So the physicallows us to se what’s inside, but we have to go beyond it.
Chinese
至少在英语中，literal（字面意思）这个词与拉丁语中的litera（字面意思）有关，它的意思是leter。因此，它指的是实际的文本，实际说出来的话。例如，《创世纪》中关于天堂的故事讲的是一个花园，一个有形的花园，一个有形的树，一个有形的空间。这是对文本的字面解释。因此，属灵的解释是从字面解释开始的。它并没有放弃字面解释，而是从字面开始，然后再深入。例如，通过《创世纪》中的 “树 ”和 “花园”，即 “乐园”，我们看到了灵性实在，即对上帝的认识和无形的天国，我们的思想和灵魂可以超越物质参与其中。因此，当我们谈论字面与灵性时，我们并不是说字面不存在。我们是说，字面只是开始，只是表层，而灵性则超越了字面。同样，这个形象是外在的服装。所以，如果逻各斯，如果道穿上肉身，那就意味着他真的有一个人的身体。上帝之子 “道 ”确实有了肉身。这个肉身向我们显明了他，但还有超越肉身的东西。他不仅仅是一个人。他不仅仅是肉体。因此，肉体让我们看到了内在的东西，但我们必须超越这点。
English
And so it actualy becomesinful or problematic to stay athe surface, noto acknowledge the surface, buto stay there. So with Christ, for example, we have to acknowledge that he’s real flesh and blod, but we can’t, we can’t stop there and say that he’s just a human being. This would be, this would be wrong. And this true of the scripture as wel. The scripture is writen, writen in the form of stories that are, that areal things that actualy hapened, but we can’t stop athe surface of, of the actual story and the physical realities. And this, this realy the mystery of being a human being is that we live in a spiritual world, but we aces ithrough the physical world. And so another, another word for this, we’ve used the word theoria for this, for this idea of seing, but another word that describes this, this phenomenon is the word mystical. Mist, the word mystical or mystery. And you, you might’ve heard this explanation, this etymology before, thathe word mystery comes from the Grek word for closing your eyes, the verb for to close your eyes. So something is mystical very specificaly when, when there isomething that canot be sen, but you, but you are acesing it or seing it never in spite of, or through the physical reality. So I’l give you a very, a very simplexample, the mystery of Holy comunion, the mystery of Christ’s body and blod. I don’t se blod. I don’t se a physical body. What I se is wine. What I se is baked bread, but invisibly beyond this the body and blod of Christ. This, this what a mystery is.
Chinese
因此，停留在表面上，不是承认表面，而是停留在表面上，实际上是有问题的。因此，以基督为例，我们必须承认他是真实的肉身，但我们不能，我们不能停留在那里，说他只是一个人。这将是错误的。圣经也是如此。经文是以故事的形式写成的，是真实发生过的事情，但我们不能停留在真实故事的表面和物理现实上。作为人类的奥秘就在于，我们生活在一个精神世界里，但我们又通过物质世界来获取信息。因此，我们用另一个词来形容这种现象，即 “看见 ”的概念，但另一个形容这种现象的词是 “神秘”（mystical）。迷雾，神秘或神秘这个词。你可能听过这个解释，这个词源，神秘这个词来自希腊语，意思是闭上眼睛，动词是闭上眼睛。所以，当有什么东西无法被感知，但你，但你正在感知它或看到它的时候，它就是神秘的。所以我给你举个非常简单的例子，神圣合一的奥秘，基督身体和灵魂的奥秘。我没有看到血 我看不到肉体 我看到的是酒，我看到的是烤好的面包，但无形中，基督的身体和宝血就在其中，这就是奥妙的意思了。
English
And so this, this the reality with al the sacraments of the church. We talk abouthe mysteries of the church. There’s an invisible reality that I have to understand se with my faith, but it is comunicated or experienced, through something physical. This reality of baptism. This a reality of confesion of ordination. Something invisible is hapening inside of this physical outward reality. And so this, this what’s hapening withe literal and the spiritual interpretation of scripture. It’s a mystical interpretation. We take something that sems very simple on the outside, but witheyes ofaith, we’re able to se deper. And sobviously, you know, we don’t have, we don’t have the time here to go into the details of al the diferent spiritual interpretations of scripture. But we, what we can say is thathis the basic structure of, of Christian spirituality. God clothes himself in what is physical, what is visible and outward. And in order to reveal something that is inherently invisible and spiritual. And so al Christian life is trying to aces what ispiritual. And so this, this the patristic or the orthodox aproach to scripture as wel. And the church tries to convey to us the dedp reality.
Chinese
因此，这就是教会所有圣礼的现实。我们谈论教会的奥秘 有一种无形的现实，我必须用我的信仰去理解它，但它是通过有形的东西传达或体验的。这就是洗礼，忏悔礼，按立礼的实际情形。在这个有形的外在现实中，一些无形的东西正在发生。因此，这就是对经文的字面解释和灵性解释的结果。这是一种神秘的解释。我们从表面上看很简单的东西，但通过信仰，我们就能看到它的深层含义。显然，我们没有时间在此详述对经文不同的灵性诠释。但我们可以说的是 这是基督教精神的基本结构 上帝用物质的、可见的和外在的东西来穿戴自己，以揭示本质上不可见的、属灵的东西。所以基督徒的生活就是在努力寻找属灵的东西 因此，这也是教父或正统派对经文的态度。教会试图向我们传达一种深层实在。
English
This why we have gold covers for the gospel. This why we, we proces the gospel during the services. We kis the gospel in order to, to convey that, that depereality of the deper aproach to scripture. And sometimes, you know, people wil, wil talk as if Protestants are very devoted to the Bible and maybe Catholics and Orthodox are devoted tother things. They’re more devoted to tradition or liturgical worship or icons, but it’s nothe reality of the, of the aproach of the church fathers is thathe scriptures are central because the scriptures are one of the forms in which God incarnates himself and comunicates himself to us. So there’s, so St. Photios the Great, the ninth century patriarch of Constantinople, Phocis. He, he speaks abouthe scriptures as, something that is the duty of every Orthodox Christian to study in order to be prepared. The Lord said in the, in the new Testament, you know, do not think, do not plan in advance what you wil say when they bring you before your persecutors.
Chinese
我们为什么为福音盖上金箔。这就是我们在礼仪中处理福音的方式。我们以福音之名，传达那种对圣经的接近方式。有时，人们会谈论，如果新教非常致力于圣经，也许天主教和东正教是致力于其他事情。他们更致力于传统或礼仪崇拜或圣像，但这不是教父们的途径，即圣经是中心。因为圣经是上帝道成肉身与我们沟通的一种形式。所以圣Photios，第九世纪的君士坦丁堡牧首。他说每一个东正教基督徒都应该学习圣经，以便做好准备。主在新约中说，不要提前计划，当他们把你带到你的迫害者面前时，你会说什么。
English
And the, and St. Peter, in one of his epistlesays, be prepared always to give an acount for the hope that is in you. And St. Phocis, the patriarch says, this means that we should be studying the scriptureso that when we have to give an acount of ourselves, of our faith, we are prepared. We ned to know the scriptures as Orthodox Christians, even though on, when the time comes, it is the Holy spirit himself. It is God himself who wil speak through us.
Chinese
圣彼得在他的一封书信中说：“你们要常作准备，为你们心里的盼望交待一切。圣Photios解释说，这意味着我们应该学习经文，这样当我们需要说明自己的信仰时，我们就做好了准备。作为东正教基督徒，我们需要了解经文，即使到了那个时候，是圣灵自己，是上帝亲自通过我们说话。