阿甲按：这是最近的一个新闻纪录片，记录了2014-2016年间，美国军队撤出伊拉克，留下大量武器，给ISIS留下了机会，占据了摩苏尔，期间摩苏尔基督徒所面临的逼迫，大量的教会和修院被摧毁，很多基督徒被屠杀，或被强迫交重税，或转成伊斯兰教徒。即便在现代，叙利亚教会仍然是殉道的教会的真实见证。采访中说：ISIS就是杀人，摧毁任何文明，我们必须反对这种意识形态。读者请留意，这边的教会主要是在16世纪时转向天主教的叙利亚教派。关于现今的叙利亚教派，请看这篇。愿他们平安，请大家为伊拉克的基督徒代祷。
- 本文讲稿和译作由阿甲的Github项目wenbi, 本文的英文由Whisper提取，中文翻译由Ollama/Yi:9b模型翻译，本文未经阿甲编辑修订。请读者阅读其中中英文时留意，欢迎各位读者指正。
- 版权声明：EWTN NEWS Special, “Christians Fight To Survive: ISIS in Iraq.” Premiered on 28 Feb 2025, links, accessed 2025-03-05.
讲稿正文「请留意，本文未经阿甲编辑修订」
English
A disturbing scene unfolding in Iraq. More towns fell today to Islamic extremists who launched a massive surprise attack. The sound of all-out war. Islamic extremists, known as ISIS, have been welcomed by many in Mosul. If you do not think the way they do, you die. Ten years ago, this city, Mosul, fell to one of the most brutal forces the modern world has ever known. ISIS. For the Christians who had lived here for generations, life would never be the same.
Chinese
伊拉克正在上演令人不安的一幕。今天，伊斯兰极端分子发动了一次大规模的突袭，许多城镇沦陷。全战的声音。被称为ISIS的伊斯兰极端分子在摩苏尔受到了热烈欢迎。如果你不认为他们的想法，你会死。十年前，这座城市摩苏尔被现代世界所知的最野蛮的力量之一——ISIS占领。对于在这里几代人生活的基督徒来说，生活将永远不会是原来的样子。
English
They were now faced with three options. To convert, to flee, or to die. We’ve come back to Iraq to learn more about this incredible story of a community that refused to be destroyed. Throughout history, Iraq’s Christians have endured persecution, war, and displacement. The ISIS invasion marked one of the darkest chapters in this long struggle. But it’s a chapter filled with stories of strength and faith. And over the next hour, we’ll speak with Christians who lived through it. The survivors, and those dedicated to rebuilding their lives and community.
Chinese
他们现在面临三个选择。转化，逃跑，或死亡。我们回到伊拉克来更深入地了解这个拒绝被摧毁的社区的惊人故事。在历史上，伊拉克的基督徒经历了迫害、战争和流离失所。ISIS的入侵标志着这一长期斗争中最黑暗的一章。但这一章节充满了力量和信仰的故事。在接下来的一个小时里，我们将与亲身经历过这些事情的人交谈。幸存者以及那些致力于重建他们的生活和社区的人们。
English
You know, because you have hope. If you don’t have hope, you don’t have, you can’t live. What happened to us was like a world war, or a Hiroshima. Iraq’s Hiroshima. What would have happened if you didn’t leave? If you refused to go? If you stayed here? They were to kill me.
Chinese
你知道，因为你拥有希望。如果你没有希望，你无法生活。我们经历的事情就像是一场世界大战，或者广岛的悲剧。伊拉克的广岛。如果你不离开会发生什么？如果你拒绝去？如果你留在这里？他们要杀了我。
English
To kill you? Yes, of course. I had my mom calling me, telling me, come back home, it’s not safe. I had my own feelings of, this is the beginning of the end for Christianity in Iraq. Really? Definitely, yes. Definitely, yes. But first, let’s go back in time.
Chinese
要杀你？是的，当然。我妈妈给我打电话，告诉我回家，不安全。我自己也有这种感觉，这是基督教在伊拉克的开始。真的吗？当然，是的。但是，让我们先回到过去。
English
Today, Iraq and the Middle East is known as a Muslim land. But it wasn’t always that way. Christianity in Iraq dates back almost 2,000 years. The people here cherish their faith. It was an integral part of their culture and their lives. And that faith was handed down from generation to generation, through stories, prayers and ancient texts. The Saint Benam Ansara’s Syriac Catholic Monastery was a powerful spiritual and cultural site in northern Iraq. Located near the ancient city of Nineveh, it served as a centre of Christian worship, scholarship and pilgrimage for centuries.
Chinese
今天，伊拉克和中东被称为穆斯林的土地。但并非一直如此。伊拉克的基督教历史可追溯到近2000年。这里的人们珍视他们的信仰。它是他们文化和生活的不可分割的一部分。这种信仰是通过故事、祈祷和古代文本一代代传承下来的。圣本马安萨拉叙利亚天主教修道院是北部伊拉克一个强大的精神和文化地点。位于古代尼尼微市附近，数世纪以来，它一直作为基督教崇拜、学术和朝圣的中心。
English
The monastery’s history is rooted in the legend of Mar Benam, a prince who converted to Christianity along with his sister Sarah, and were martyred for their faith. Father, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. Father Mezen Matoka is the abbot here. This is incredible, this monastery. Yeah. Going all the way back to the 4th century? Yes.
Chinese
该寺院的史前历史植根于玛尔·贝纳（Mar Benam）的传说，他是一位王子和他的妹妹莎拉一起皈依了基督教，并为他们的信仰殉难。 父辈，很高兴认识你。我也很高兴认识你。这里的老修道院是梅森·马托卡神父。这太不可思议了。是的，一直追溯到公元4世纪？是的。
English
We can see some of it now. The inscriptions and prayers that ISIS destroyed. You can see our father and Holy Mary and some prayers here destroyed ISIS. This is the our folder in Arabic that has been destroyed by ISIS? Yes, in Syriac and in Arabic. Two languages. Chiseled away. Yes.
Chinese
我们现在可以看到一些它。 ISIS 摧毁的铭文和祈祷。你在这里可以看看我们的父亲和圣母以及被伊斯兰国破坏的祈祷。这是阿拉伯语文件夹，是的，叙利亚语和阿拉伯语。两种语言。已被凿走。是的。
English
Wow. The monastery was once a thriving centre for the faith, educating priests and monks about Catholicism who would then go out and preach, and the faith spread quickly. Archbishop Basha Wardah is the Chaldean Archbishop of Erbil. One of the characteristics of this church here was a missionary church. Like, yes, it was separated because mainly it was within the Persian Empire, which was separated politically from the Roman Empire. But this church here, although there was a lot of persecution in the beginning of the Christianity here, managed to send missionaries to even the Gulf states. The New Testament The New Testament The New Testament The New Testament It was during the 8th century that Islam arrived in Iraq, shortly after the death of the Prophet Muhammad. And by the late 8th century, the new religion had firmly established itself in the region.
Chinese
哇。这座修道院曾经是一个兴旺的信仰中心，教育神父和僧侣关于天主教，然后他们出去传教，信仰迅速传播。阿达尔贝基人巴沙·瓦拉是埃尔比勒的亚述大主教。这里教堂的一个特点是传教士教堂。比如说，它被分开，因为它主要是在波斯帝国，与罗马帝国在政治上分离。但是这里的教堂，尽管在这儿的基督教初期遭受了很多迫害，但仍然能够派遣传教士到甚至海湾国家。新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新约新。在8世纪，伊斯兰教抵达伊拉克，穆罕默德去世后不久。到8世纪末，这种新的宗教已经在该地区牢固确立。
English
And Iraq became a crucial area in the early development of Islamic civilization, making Baghdad its capital. Even when Islam came at the end of the 7th century, they welcomed and there was like, they started like a dialogue of life with Islam. The Christians were the one who helped translating philosophical texts, math, medicine, from Greek to Syriac and then to Arabic. So this idea of inter-religious dialogue is not a new concept here. Back then there was this, in some way, religious harmony between the two? I would say there was a dialogue of life. While there may have been a dialogue of life, and Muslims didn’t necessarily use force to make people convert, there were other social, political and economic pressures put on Christians. The Islamic conquests introduced new governance systems, which often favoured Muslims with lower taxes and easier movement within the region.
Chinese
伊拉克成为伊斯兰文明早期发展的重要地区，巴格达成为其首都。甚至当伊斯兰教在 7 世纪末传入时，他们也表示欢迎，并开始与伊斯兰教进行生活对话。基督徒帮助将哲学著作、数学、医学从希腊文翻译成叙利亚文，然后再翻译成阿拉伯文。因此，宗教间对话在这里并不是一个新概念。当时，在某种程度上，两者之间存在宗教和谐吗？我想说的是一种生命的对话。虽然可能存在生活对话，穆斯林也不一定使用武力迫使人们皈依，但基督徒也面临着其他社会、政治和经济压力。伊斯兰征服引入了新的管理制度，这往往有利于穆斯林，因为他们的税收更低，在地区内的行动也更方便。
English
And many converted to Islam to gain these advantages, or to integrate more fully into the new ruling elite. Additionally, the appeal of Islam’s simple and universal message, as well as the influence of Muslim traders, scholars and inter-marriage contributed to conversions. And while violent and radical expressions of Islam have appeared at various times over the centuries, the significant escalation of radicalism and violence in Iraq can be traced to modern times. The Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s, the Gulf War of the 1990s, and then in the 2000s, the US invasion of Iraq, which toppled Saddam Hussein’s regime and created a power vacuum. This chaos allowed extremist groups like al-Qaeda to flourish, eventually leading to the rise of ISIS in the 2010s. ISIS, the Islamic State of Iraq and Al-Sham. Now, they’ve taken Mosul to Crete and much of central Iraq. ISIS destroyed all the crosses.
Chinese
许多人为获得这些优势，或更全面地融入新的统治精英而转向伊斯兰教。此外，伊斯兰教简单而普遍的信息的吸引力，以及穆斯林商人、学者和通婚也对皈依做出了贡献。而且，尽管在过去的几个世纪里，伊斯兰教的暴力和激进表现不时出现，但伊拉克现代激进化和暴力的加剧可以追溯到现代时期。1980年代伊朗与伊拉克之间的战争，1990年代的波斯湾战争，然后在21世纪头十年美国入侵伊拉克，推翻萨达姆·侯赛因的政权并创造了一个权力真空。这种混乱让像基地组织这样的极端组织蓬勃发展，最终导致2010年代伊斯兰国（ISIS）在伊拉克的崛起。伊斯兰国，伊拉克和沙姆的伊斯兰国家。现在，他们已经占领了摩苏尔和中央伊拉克的大部分地区。伊斯兰国摧毁了所有的十字架。
English
Any human, like Saint Vietnam, Saint Peter, Saint Paul, destroyed it because… I’ll say it in Arabic. They destroyed these markings because they believe that we worship the cross, and that we worship the animals and the saints. The Qaddis. And any markers of the Christian faith? Yes. They destroyed it, they took it away? Yes, certainly. This monastery housed a rich collection of ancient Syriac Christian manuscripts, including liturgical books, theological writings, and historical records.
Chinese
任何像圣越南、圣彼得、圣保罗的人都会摧毁它，因为……我用阿拉伯语说。他们摧毁这些标记，因为他们认为我们崇拜十字架，崇拜动物和圣人。卡迪斯。还有基督教信仰的标志吗？是的。他们摧毁了它，拿走了它？是的，当然。这座修道院住着丰富的古代叙利亚基督教手稿，包括典礼书籍、神学著作和历史记录。
English
But when ISIS invaded, they wanted to destroy any symbols of Christianity they could, although some symbols were accidentally spared. He thinks it’s the Islamic art, here and there, but he doesn’t focus on the Babylonian or the Christian art. One of the markings ISIS mistook for Islamic art was the octagon, symbolizing the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is the octagon, the eight, this is the cross, and this is the first letters, Jesus in Greek. And it means new life, or eternal life. This marking symbolizes the eighth day in Christianity, which means new life, or a symbol of eternal life. This was present in the Babylonian civilization. But for us, the eighth day means God’s new creation had begun, because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Chinese
但是当伊斯兰国入侵时，他们想要摧毁任何基督教象征，尽管有些符号意外幸存。他认为这是伊斯兰艺术，这里和那里，但他并没有专注于巴比伦或基督教的艺术。 ISIS误认为伊斯兰艺术的标志之一是八边形，代表着耶稣基督的复活。这是一个八边形，八个，这是十字架，这是第一个字母，希腊语中的“耶稣”。这意味着新的生活，或者永恒的生命。这个标记象征着基督教中的第八天，意味着新生命，或永恒生命的象征。在巴比伦文明中就有这个标志。但是对我们来说，第八天意味着上帝的新创造已经开始，因为耶稣基督的复活。
English
This is the rest. I show you. You see this windows? Yes. The eighth? Same. The octagon. Inside, more damage.
Chinese
这是剩余的部分。我展示给你。你看到这个窗户？是的。第八个？也是。八边形。里面，更多的损害。
English
Depictions of saints and holy people were scraped and chiseled off the walls. In addition to the symbols of the lion, which represents Christ, Saint Sarah, and also here, we have the doors of the two baptisms, which have symbols of monks and crosses. Look, we can see a monk and a cross here. These were all, unfortunately, destroyed by ISIS. Any cross that was here, even if it was small, was destroyed by ISIS. ISIS made sure to destroy any markings of Christianity, but interestingly, didn’t destroy the building itself. Father, why didn’t ISIS just completely destroy this place? Why did they want to keep it?
Chinese
圣人和神圣人物的描绘被从墙上刮掉并雕刻掉。除了代表基督的狮子符号，还有圣莎拉和在这里，我们也有两个洗礼的门，这些门有修道士和十字架的符号。看，这里有一个修道士和一个十字架。不幸的是，ISIS破坏了这一切。任何这里的十字架，即使很小，也被ISIS破坏了。ISIS确保破坏了一切基督教的标志，但有趣的是，他们没有破坏这座建筑物本身。父亲，为什么ISIS不干脆完全摧毁这个地方？他们为什么要保留它？
English
When ISIS captured this site, it was also because of military reason. You see, this place was protected. There are no buildings around us, so it was a good lookout. And also, it’s a protected archaeological site, so it could not be bombed or struck by Iraqi military forces. So it was a strategic hideout for them, and they used this place to hide the things they had taken in war. They also held prisoners here, and held them trial. They held them trial. The National War The National War The National War On the outskirts of the city of Mosul, you have towns like Caramels, Bartela, and Karakosh.
Chinese
当ISIS占领这个地点时，这也是出于军事原因。你知道，这个地方被保护起来了。我们周围没有建筑物，所以这是一个很好的观察点。此外，它是一个受保护的考古遗址，因此不能被伊拉克军队轰炸或攻击。所以这是一个他们的战略藏身之处，他们使用这个地方隐藏他们在战争中夺取的东西。他们也在这儿关押囚犯，并在这里进行审判。他们在这里进行了审判。在摩苏尔市郊，你会有像糖果、巴特拉和卡罗什这样的城镇。
English
Families lived here for generations, building lives rooted in faith. Today, these towns bear the scars of the invasion. These villages were once the heart of Iraq’s Christian population. Vibrant communities full of life, tradition and faith. But when ISIS entered, within just a few hours, the residents fled. ISIS created checkpoints around these towns. They now had control. Christians were stopped and asked to convert.
Chinese
世代家庭在这里生活，他们的生活根植于信仰。今天，这些城镇留下了入侵的伤痕。这些村庄曾经是伊拉克基督教人口的中心。充满生命、传统和信仰的活力社区。但当伊斯兰国进入时，仅仅几个小时后，居民就逃跑了。伊斯兰国在这些城镇设立了检查站。现在他们控制了局面。基督徒被拦下并要求改信。
English
They were threatened and they were told this was no longer their home. Living at home with her parents and sister is Rand. Rand! Hey, great to see you again. They are all Christians. Today she is 30, but she was 20 when ISIS invaded her town of Karakosh. What do you remember of that time? When you were here, life was normal and then all of a sudden you hear that ISIS is coming.
Chinese
他们受到了威胁，并被告知这已不再是他们家园。Rand与她的父母和妹妹住在一起。嘿，很高兴再次见到你。他们都信奉基督教。今天她30岁，但在ISIS入侵她家乡卡拉克什时，她才20岁。你对那个时代有什么记忆？当你在这里的时候，生活是正常的，但突然间你听说ISIS要来了。
English
Well, I remember for the last three days we were sleeping on the roof of the houses. Sleeping on the roof of the houses? Yeah. Because the electricity was cutting off at that time because of all these, you know, attacks between ISIS and the Iraqi army. And then we were sleeping on the roof because it was too hot. You can’t sleep inside the house with no electricity. Because there’s no air conditioning. Yeah.
Chinese
嗯，我记得在过去的三个晚上，我们都在房顶上睡觉。在房顶上睡觉？是的。因为那时候电力正在被切断，因为所有的这些，你知道的，ISIS和伊拉克军队之间的袭击。然后我们在屋顶上睡觉，因为天气太热了。没有电你根本无法在房子里睡觉。因为没有空调。是的。
English
But also we were seeing the rockets between going and coming from the both sides for three days. Yeah. Rand’s family had become used to living in dangerous situations here in this turbulent area. And before they had stayed put and held their ground. But when the fighting around them intensified, they knew something was different this time. My dad was thinking that we were just going to go for a few days just to relax and then we come back. We didn’t expect this. At the same day, at the night, like, we hear the news that ISIS attacked Karakosh and no more under control.
Chinese
但我们同时也在看到在双方之间来回飞行的火箭，连续三天都是如此。是的。Rand的家族已经习惯了在这个动荡地区生活危险的情况。在他们之前一直坚守原地，直到周围的战斗加剧，他们就知道这次情况有所不同了。我爸爸认为我们只是去放松几天然后回来，我们没有预料到这种情况。同一天的晚上，就像，我们听说ISIS攻击了Karakosh并且已经无法控制了。
English
So you realised then you had made it out just in time? Yeah. It was, you know, a very wise decision. Now you’re just rebuilding. We rebuild. Also living in the town of Karakosh is Khalas Isha. He is a former member of the Iraqi parliament. And his house was destroyed by ISIS and had to be rebuilt.
Chinese
所以你意识到你及时逃了出来？是的。这是非常明智的决定。现在我们只是重建。也住在卡拉克苏斯的喀拉什·伊斯哈。他曾是伊拉克议会的成员。他的房子被伊斯兰国摧毁，不得不重建。
English
This is my house. And like other houses in this area, it was totally burned. Destroyed? Yes. I had a library containing thousands of books. They were all burned as well. I have some pictures here of what the house was like. Just burned.
Chinese
这是我的房子。和其他这个地区的房子一样，它也被完全烧毁了。毁灭了？是的。我有一个藏有成千上本书的图书馆。它们都被烧毁了。我在这里有一些照片，展示了这所房子的样子。只是被烧了。
English
Burned? It was burned, all of it. What did you think when you saw your house burned? Okay, I thank God because my family was saved. That was the most important thing for me. Thank God. Khalas has a deep knowledge of Iraq and its social and political structures and says that while the rapid fall of the Iraqi forces to ISIS came as a surprise, he believes the attacks were inevitable as spots of violence and terror had been increasing before that. When the previous regime fell in 2003, it created a vacuum.
Chinese
烧了？它被烧毁了，一切都消失了。当你看到你的房子被烧毁时，你想到什么？好吧，我感谢上帝，因为我的家人得以幸存。对我来说这是最重要的。感谢上帝。Khalas对伊拉克及其社会和政治结构有着深刻的了解，他认为尽管伊拉克军队迅速向伊斯兰国（ISIS）投降令人惊讶，但他认为这些攻击是不可避免的，因为在发生之前，暴力和恐怖事件一直在增加。当以前的政权在2003年倒台时，它创造了一个真空。
English
A security vacuum, a political vacuum, a social vacuum and a religious vacuum. Everything was different. Because before that, there was only one system of power in the country. But all of a sudden, this flipped and the system changed. And so because of this, extremists were able to enter the region and take advantage of that vacuum. They used it to create chaos in society. They promoted a backward mentality and they took things back 1400 years as if life had just begun. They completely disregarded the modern sense of coexistence and all other developments that had taken place in the communities.
Chinese
安全真空、政治真空、社会真空和宗教真空。一切都不同了。因为在国家之前只有一个权力系统。但突然之间，这个翻转了，系统变了。所以由于这个原因，极端分子能够进入该地区并利用那个真空。他们用它来在社会上制造混乱。他们推广了一种倒退的心态，并将生活回到了1400年前，好像生活刚刚开始一样。他们完全忽视了现代共存意识和社区内所有其他的发展。
English
Ladies and gentlemen, we got him. After the fall of Saddam Hussein’s Sunni dominated regime in 2023, Iraq’s government became predominantly Shia. This created tensions in Sunni majority areas where some felt politically and socially marginalized. Extremist groups like ISIS capitalized on this discontent, seeking power and enforcing a radical form of Sunni Islam. While some Sunni Iraqis initially sympathized with ISIS’s anti-government stance, many others rejected their ideology and became victims of their violence. This created confusion in the community and led to the emergence of extremists who sought to disrupt the country’s security and cause division in society. So these groups launched several acts against other sects or faiths, especially those who disagreed with their ideologies and mindsets. ISIS used their ideology and their interpretation of Islam to justify a brutal killing spread.
Chinese
女士们，先生们，我们抓到他了。2023年萨达姆·侯赛因的什叶派统治垮台后，伊拉克政府变成了主要什叶派。这在这些逊尼派占多数的区域产生了紧张情绪，其中一些感觉在政治和社会上被边缘化。像伊斯兰国这样的极端组织利用这种不满，寻求权力并实施了一种激进的逊尼派伊斯兰教。虽然一些伊拉克逊尼派最初同情伊斯兰国的反政府立场，但许多人拒绝了他们的意识形态，成为他们暴力的受害者。这导致了社区中的极端分子，他们试图破坏国家的安全和社会的团结。因此，这些团体对其他教派或信仰发起了几次行动，特别是那些不同意他们的意识形态和心态的人。伊斯兰国用他们的理念和对伊斯兰教的解释为残酷的大规模杀伤性行为辩护。
English
ISIS showed very little mercy. In the beginning, people were murdered simply according to their identity cards. There was once an occasion where eight students were kidnapped from Baghdadeh Qaraqosh as they were in the school buses. And these buses were sponsored by the church at that time. On another occasion in 2010, students were attacked as they were heading for their morning classes in Mosul. There were about 1,200 students, and there was a trap set up for them to be murdered. Thankfully, it was foiled. There were many groups being targeted in Mosul and in the Sunni areas, even in Baghdad.
Chinese
伊斯兰国（ISIS）表现出了非常少的慈悲。起初，人们只是根据他们的身份卡就被谋杀。曾经有一次，八名学生从巴格达的Qaraqosh被绑架，因为他们正乘坐校车。而且当时这些校车是由教会赞助的。在2010年另一个场合，当学生们正在前往早上的课程时，他们在摩苏尔遭到袭击。大约有1,200名学生，他们被设置了一个陷阱来谋杀。幸运的是，它被挫败了。在摩苏尔和逊尼派地区，甚至在巴格达，有很多目标群体。
English
And from 2003 until the ISIS conflict in 2014, 1,132 Christians were killed. Even before the ISIS invasion, many Christians and other minorities had moved to areas like the Nineveh Plains to try and feel stronger in numbers. Because back where they came from, they didn’t feel safe. When attacks happened, they felt they weren’t being defended. They felt that they were murdered, and that even their ordinary Muslim neighbors were turning a blind eye to the persecution. Did a certain percentage of the population in places like Mosul accept ISIS when they came in because their beliefs aligned with their ideology? Yes. Before ISIS attacked, there was some instability in the relationship between the civilians and the security forces.
Chinese
从2003年到2014年的伊斯兰国冲突，有1132名基督徒被杀害。甚至在伊斯兰国入侵之前，许多基督徒和其他少数族裔已经搬到像拿因平原这样的地方，试图在数量上感觉更强。因为他们在来的地方感觉不安全。当他们所在的地方发生袭击时，他们觉得没有被保护。他们觉得他们是被迫害的。他们的普通穆斯林邻居对迫害视而不见。在摩苏尔等地的某些人口比例接受伊斯兰国是因为他们的信仰与他们的意识形态相符？是的。在伊斯兰国进攻之前，平民和安保部队之间的关系有些不稳定。
English
The civilians thought that most security forces were Shia Muslims, and the city of Mosul and the surrounding villages were mostly Sunni Muslims. So there was some sectarianism that was rising there. But it seems like there was no strong leadership among the Iraqi military forces at that time to resist and stop the invasion of Mosul. So when the Iraqi forces retreated, all the weapons and tanks were left in the hands of the opposing group. So they took those weapons and became stronger. They became stronger. With the retreat of the Iraqi forces, and their arms being put into the hands of the terrorists, emboldened by a new sense of power and control, and again complicit support from many of the locals, ISIS were now stronger than ever. Oh, I mean, they have to leave Christianity.
Chinese
平民们认为大多数安全部队是什叶派穆斯林，而摩苏尔市及其周围的村庄主要是逊尼派穆斯林。因此那里有一些教派主义正在上升。但是看起来当时伊拉克军事力量并没有强有力的领导来抵抗和阻止对摩苏尔的入侵。所以当伊拉克军队撤退时，所有的武器和大炮都落入了反对者的手中。所以他们拿走了那些武器并变得更加强大。他们变得更加强大。随着伊拉克军队的撤退，他们的武器落入恐怖分子手中，由于当地人的共谋支持，ISIS现在比以往任何时候都要强大。哦，我是说，他们对基督教不感兴趣。
English
They should become a Muslim. That’s the first condition. Or paying the taxation, the jizya, which is kind of enslavement. I mean, you cannot really think. If we have accepted this in the seventh, eighth century and ninth century, but you cannot accept it in the 21st century. If Christians didn’t convert, they would have to pay an enormous tax. Money that would have been used to further strengthen ISIS and their mission. The same method used to persecute Christians hundreds of years ago.
Chinese
他们应该成为一名穆斯林。这是第一个条件。或者缴纳税收，即吉兹亚（jizya），这是一种形式上的奴役。也就是说，你不能真正思考。如果我们已经在7世纪、8世纪和9世纪接受了这一点，但你不能在21世纪接受它。如果基督徒不皈依，他们不得不支付巨额税款。这笔钱本可以用来进一步增强ISIS及其使命的力量。同样的方法被用于几百年前迫害基督教徒。
English
And if they refused to do that, they could be facing death. That’s easy. If he refused to become a Muslim or paying the jizya, he would be, I mean, beaten and could face the death. It must have been terrifying for the people in that situation at the time, like a nightmare. It is a nightmare. Just to think about it. Plus, who would be supporting you if you don’t have a community, a Christian community around us? When ISIS approached Karakash, everyone fled.
Chinese
如果他们拒绝那样做，他们将面临死亡。这很简单。如果他拒绝成为穆斯林或支付吉兹亚，他会被打，可能会面临死亡。对于当时处于那种情况的人们来说，就像是一场噩梦。这是一场噩梦。只是想想就让人害怕。另外，如果你没有社区支持，比如我们周围的基督教社区呢？当伊斯兰国接近卡拉卡什时，所有人逃跑了。
English
But Hallis remained there until the last moment, clinging to the chance that they might be defeated. What would have happened if you didn’t leave? If you refused to go? If you stayed here? They were to kill me. To kill you? Yes, of course. They murdered anyone working for the government or for the state without considering their type of work.
Chinese
但哈尔里斯一直待到最后一刻，紧紧抓住他们可能会被击败的机会。如果你没有离开会发生什么？如果你拒绝离开？如果你留在这里？他们会杀了我。杀你？是的，当然。他们杀害了为政府或国家工作的人，不论他们的工作类型如何。
English
The fall of Karakash was one of the most devastating moments for Iraqi Christians. Families were torn apart and some even paid the ultimate price. Archbishop Benedictus Yonan Hano is the Syriac Catholic Archbishop of Mosul and remembers the mass exodus of people starting to flee when ISIS came, having nowhere to go, and even worse, as Christians, feeling like they had no one to turn to. Everyone was experiencing a state of chaos and horror until the late hours of that night. The situation was chaotic, confusing, and it was painful, filled with suffering, as we had to leave our homes and our churches. The most painful thing we experienced on that day, something that’s hard to get over, was the disappointment we felt when there was no one there to defend or protect us. We realized just how marginalized we are in this country. And at the same time, it’s so difficult for someone to be lost and fleeing in their own country without protection.
Chinese
卡拉克什的沦陷是伊拉克基督徒最悲惨的时刻之一。家庭被拆散，甚至有些人付出了生命的代价。大主教本尼迪克特·扬安·汉诺是摩苏尔叙福克天主教大主教，记得当伊斯兰国到来时人们开始逃离，无处可去，更糟的是，作为基督徒，感觉没有人可以求助。那天晚些时候，每个人都在经历混乱和恐怖的状态，直到深夜。情况很混乱，令人困惑，充满了痛苦，因为我们不得不在没有保护的情况下离开我们的家园和教堂。我们意识到，在那一天所经历的失望是很难过去的，因为我们感到没有人来保卫或保护我们。我们意识到在这个国家我们是多么边缘化。同时，在一个自己的国家失去保护而逃亡是如此困难。
English
So this was one of the things that caused us real pain. To have become refugees in our own lands, losing our identities. We were no longer identified according to our backgrounds and origins. Rather, we were only identified as refugees. And this was a painful word for us. The people felt a sense of betrayal. Many believed there wasn’t a huge effort put into protecting them as they were Christians. This was painful for Christians, because at that point, we felt rejected in these areas.
Chinese
所以这是我们遭受痛苦的原因之一。 成为我们自己国家的难民，失去我们的身份。 我们不再根据我们的背景和起源来识别。 而是仅被识别为难民。 这对我们来说是一个痛苦的词。人们感到背叛的感觉。许多人认为没有在这些地区为他们作为基督徒进行大量保护。这对基督教徒来说很痛苦，因为在那个点上，我们在这些地区被拒绝。
English
And so for all these reasons, the people were let down by the rulers and by the present forces. But it wasn’t just Christians who were targeted. It was also other minorities. When ISIS entered Nineveh, they harmed all the groups living in the areas. And not only Christians. But they also targeted Muslims, Yazidis, and other groups as well. Such as Kakais, Shabak, and Turkmen. They were all persecuted.
Chinese
因此，人们因为统治者和现存力量而感到失望。但不仅基督徒受到针对。其他少数族裔也受到了影响。当伊斯兰国进入尼尼微时，他们伤害了地区内所有居住的群体。不仅仅是基督徒。他们也针对穆斯林、雅兹迪人以及其他群体。比如库尔德人、什叶派和突厥人。他们都遭受迫害。
English
Everyone was in danger. ISIS’s danger did not only target Christians, but it targeted the whole of Iraq. Everybody. The reason that extremist groups like ISIS form is complex. However, it has been shown that the group leaders recruit by appealing to young men’s insecurities and vulnerabilities in the system. ISIS was able to manipulate very poor and marginalized groups within Iraqi society. People who had little to no income or education, and were vulnerable to extremist ideology. So this idea of ISIS recruiting from these groups was not a new approach in Iraqi society.
Chinese
每个人都很危险。ISIS的危险不仅针对基督徒，它还针对整个伊拉克。所有人。像ISIS这样的极端组织形成的理由是复杂的。然而，已经表明，该组织的领导人通过吸引年轻人对不安全感和不稳定感的诉求来招募成员。ISIS能够操纵伊拉克社会中非常贫困和边缘化的群体。那些几乎没有收入和教育的人，容易受到极端主义思想的影响。因此，认为ISIS从这些群体中招募并不是在伊拉克社会中的一种新方法。
English
Because this was the very same approach adopted previously by Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda was also looking for unemployed young men, those who did not have a source of income or purpose in life. They would pay them money in order to implement their terrorist operations. And we have heard this from the politicians who were fighting the al-Qaeda ideology at that time. Archbishop Benedictus believes that the Iraqi government shares some of the responsibility for allowing these young men to become so radicalized. I think the Iraqi government could be criticized here because it did not provide industrial facilities that could have potentially provided employment opportunities for the young population. Allowing them to work for the government and granting them a good source of income. When ISIS came in, it was a transitional period for the government.
Chinese
因为这是与基地组织之前采取的相同方法。基地组织也在寻找失业的年轻人，那些没有收入来源或生活目标的人。他们付给他们钱以实施他们的恐怖主义活动。我们从当时正在与基地组织意识形态作斗争的政治家那里听到了这一点。大主教本尼迪克特认为伊拉克政府在一定程度上对此负责，允许这些年轻人如此极端化。我认为伊拉克政府在这里可以被批评，因为它没有提供工业设施，原本可以为年轻人口提供就业机会。让他们为政府工作并给予他们良好的收入。当伊斯兰国到来时，这是政府的过渡时期。
English
So there were many factors that had combined together. And ISIS exploited this gap that the Iraqi community was having. Namely, the unemployment of the people. Indeed, this is not an excuse for those who betrayed their country. But at the same time, the Iraqi government was unable to meet citizens’ needs at that time. And that’s why ISIS exploited this gap. And the consequences were very tragic. And the consequences were very tragic.
Chinese
所以有很多因素都汇集在一起。而ISIS利用了伊拉克社区所存在的这个缺口。即人们的失业问题。确实，这并不是那些背叛自己国家的人的借口。但同时，当时的伊拉克政府也无法满足公民的需求。这就是为什么ISIS会利用这个缺口。而后果是非常悲惨的。后果是非常悲惨的。
English
And the consequences of the people who had been in the middle of the night are still to save their lives. And the people who took the work of the people who had been in the middle of the night were not in the middle of the night. With thousands of Christians on the run and nowhere to go, not knowing when they could return home and fearing for their lives, they turned to the one place they knew would not desert them, the church. And one of the places they came, in the middle of the night, was the church here in Erbil. Archbishop Wardah remembers the scene of chaos when he entered the churchyard. All of these families scattered inside the church building, the gardens, here everywhere around this house. They refused to go to the UN camps. They said the church is the secure place that we could really rely on.
Chinese
在深夜中的人们所遭受的后果仍然需要拯救他们的生命。在深夜中所做的工作的人，并没有在深夜中被抓住。成千上万的基督徒在逃亡中，无处可去，不知道他们何时能回家，担心自己的生命安全，他们转向唯一不会抛弃他们的地方——教堂。而他们来过的其中一个地方，在深夜里，是埃尔比勒的这座教堂。大主教Wardah 记得当他进入教堂院子时的混乱场景。所有这些家庭散布在教堂建筑内，花园中，到处都是，这个房子周围。他们拒绝前往联合国难民营。他们说教堂是我们真正可以依赖的安全地方。
English
What was also extraordinary was that even though there was no guarantee that ISIS wouldn’t come here next, many young Christians decided to stay and help these strangers. Two of those Christian volunteers were Devar Sher and Alan Rassam. You were both here ten years ago when this courtyard was filled with people, with families who had fled. What do you remember about the feeling that was in the air, what it was like? It was very mixed feelings. I remember the first time that we heard about the news. The first feeling that every Christian here, not only every Christian, but every citizen of Erbil was like, we need to fled Erbil because ISIS is coming to Erbil. You thought they would come here too?
Chinese
同样非同寻常的是，尽管无法保证 ISIS 下一次不会来到这里，但许多年轻的基督徒还是决定留下来帮助这些陌生人。德瓦尔-谢尔和艾伦-拉萨姆就是其中的两位基督徒志愿者。十年前你们俩都在这里，当时这个院子里挤满了人和逃难的家庭。你们还记得当时的感觉吗？心情很复杂。我记得我们第一次听到这个消息。这里的每个基督徒，不仅是每个基督徒，还有埃尔比勒的每个市民的第一感觉都是：我们必须逃离埃尔比勒，因为伊斯兰国要来埃尔比勒了。你觉得他们也会来这里吗？
English
Yes, everyone thought that. You were seeing the borders were filled with people kind of going to the mountains because they were thinking that it’s harder to reach the mountains. We basically, we came with our cars and we kept transferring people from the church from 8pm probably until 3am, 4am. And people just kept coming and coming. It was scary. I had my mom calling me, telling me, come back home. It’s not safe. I had my own feelings of, this is the beginning of the end for Christianity in Iraq.
Chinese
是的，大家都这么认为。你看到边境上的人们正前往山区，因为他们认为山区更难到达。我们基本上，大概从晚上8点到凌晨3、4点，开着车不断把人从教堂里接出来。人们不断地来，来来去去。这很吓人。我妈妈给我打电话，让我回家，不安全。我自己也有这种感觉，这是伊拉克基督教末日的开始。
English
Really? Definitely, yes. And feeling that danger and uncertainty, why did you decide to come here and to help? From the beginning we were part of the church, this community. I mean, it’s part of our mission, but it’s also a humanitarian feelings and humanitarian response to those of our own. Many of these families, they were moving on feet from dozens of kilometres because ISIS took their car and they were lucky to be alive. The young volunteers got to work, distributing food, blankets, medicine, but it was overwhelming. We basically were there to distribute the breads, whatever that was being cooked, some of the sandwiches, some of the people who came and kind of gave water, hygienic stuff, baby stuff, anything that was given, we were basically distributing it.
Chinese
真的？当然，是的。并且感到危险和不确定，你为什么决定来这里帮忙？从一开始我们就是教会的成员，这个社区的一部分。也就是说，这是我们的使命，也是人道主义的感受和对于我们自己的回应。许多这些家庭，他们是从几十公里步行而来的因为ISIS夺走了他们的汽车，他们幸运的是还活着。年轻的志愿者开始工作，分发食物、毛毯、药品，但情况非常糟糕。我们基本上是在分发面包，无论被烹饪的东西，一些人带来了水、卫生用品、婴儿用品，任何被给予的，我们基本上在分发它。
English
And then after the first week, me and a couple of other friends in the medical background, we also thought that there’s a need for medicine for these people. While the young volunteers looked after people’s immediate physical and material needs, Bishop Wardour remembers the spiritual turmoil and confusion among the community that he had to try and help and be there for the people. Why God, all of this? What we’ve done? What was our sin? Why we’ve been punished this way? We are innocent, even for me, I mean, for me and for other bishops. Why?
Chinese
在一周后，我和几位医疗背景的朋友也认为这些人们需要药物。虽然年轻的志愿者照顾了人们的即时物质和身体需求，但布什沃德记得社区中的人们所经历的灵性混乱和困惑，他必须尽力帮助并为那些人提供支持。为什么上帝，这一切？我们做了什么？我们的罪是什么？为什么我们要受到这样的惩罚？我们是无辜的，即使对我来说，其他主教也是这样。为什么？
English
Why us in this situation? What do you think gave people the strength to keep going and to stand by their faith and to live having fled away from their home? What gave them the courage to keep going? I would look at this from being a member of the body of Christ. Even if it’s some people would say, yeah, okay, not all of them have a personal faith in Christ. Okay, but they do have a personal trust in you and me who have personal. So we move as a community body of Christ and walk as a body of Christ. And from that, we get that strength.
Chinese
为什么在这个情况下选择我们？你认为是什么给了人们继续前进、坚持信仰和逃离家园后生存的勇气？他们是如何持续前行的？我会从基督身体的成员的角度来看这个问题。即使有些人会说，好吧，不是所有人都有个人对基督的信仰。好的，但他们对我们个人的信任。所以作为基督身体的一部分，我们一起行动并一起行走。正是这一点给了我们力量。
English
It’s a community faith. It’s a we faith in that sense. And that sense. With, of course, thinking always that we are Church of the Martyrs. Just speaking of the modern history of Iraq, we never had 10 years in peace. They say that in the worst of times, you can see the best in people. And you did get to see that with all the volunteers and the work that you were doing. It really was a nice feeling to see that we were like, there were at least, on every day there was like at least 80 to 90 volunteers from different ages.
Chinese
这是一个社区信仰。在这个意义上，它是一种我们信仰。而且，当然，总是认为我们是殉道者教堂。只是谈论伊拉克现代史，我们从未有过10年的和平。他们说在最坏的时候，你可以看到最好的人。而你确实看到了所有志愿者和您所做的工。每天至少有80到90名不同年龄的志愿者，这真的很好。
English
Starting from 15 and 16 years old until 30 and 40 coming together to do. And it was, the national distribution of tasks just happened. For example, whoever who was, who liked to help children and kind of keep them entertained. They did that. They did that. Whoever who was good with. Like to cook. Exactly.
Chinese
从15岁到30岁和40岁的人聚集在一起做。而且就是这样，任务的分发就发生了。例如，谁喜欢帮助孩子们并让他们娱乐。他们做到了。他们做到了。谁擅长……比如烹饪。正是这样。
English
They did that. I feel honored that I served with these people at that time. I feel honored that I served with Bishop Wardah, who was the first one to welcome these IDPs, but also he was the one who, to cook for them. We had a very big pot and there’s pictures about how he was cooking and pouring for each family or each person who was coming to take the food. It gives you hope, doesn’t it, Alan, when you see that spirit come out in people? Yeah, it’s about the leadership that we had. That’s something that will give you hope that when the government is not there, the bishop was there. The sad reality is that for all the ones who stayed and sought shelter, many others simply couldn’t cope.
Chinese
他们那样做了。我很荣幸在那个时间与这些人一起服务过。我很荣幸与巴斯通·沃达（Bishop Wardah）一起服务，他是第一个欢迎这些难民的人，也是第一个为他们做饭的人。我们有一个很大的锅，有他做饭和为每个人倒食物的照片。看到这种精神出现在人们身上，难道不会给你希望吗？是的，领导力会给你希望。当政府不在时，主教在。不幸的是，对于那些留下来寻求庇护的人来说，许多其他人根本无法应对。
English
The damage had been done. They saw ISIS had destroyed their homes and their communities. There was nothing to return to. And they left their beloved homeland of Iraq. 57% of the people immigrated to Australia, Canada, Europe and the USA. In addition to that, over 83 churches, graveyards and monasteries were destroyed. And this was just in Nineveh. This almost destroyed the Christian heritage and culture.
Chinese
造成的损害已经完成。他们看到ISIS摧毁了他们的家园和社区。没有什么可以回去的。他们离开了伊拉克这个亲爱的祖国。有57%的人移民到澳大利亚、加拿大、欧洲和美国。除此之外，超过83座教堂、墓地和修道院被毁坏。这只是在拿破仑。这几乎破坏了基督教遗产和文化。
English
And the museums that held the roots of our civilization as Chaldeans, Syriacs and Assyrians. This was our background, our history. And we felt a great deal of pain when our cultural heritage was destroyed. They even killed our religious leaders. They were also digging up the graves, especially those of clergymen in Karamlesh, and taking the bodies out of graves and doing very horrific things. There will be no Christians in Iraq. There will be no Assyrians in Iraq. What Rand and her family, Khalis, the priests and bishops thought would last only three days, lasted three long years.
Chinese
我们文明的基础，如迦勒底人、色雷斯人和亚述人，就是我们的背景和历史。当我们的文化遗产被摧毁时，我们感到非常痛苦。他们甚至杀害了我们的宗教领袖。他们在卡马尔什的坟墓上做得尤其可怕，挖出棺材并将尸体取出，做了很多恐怖的事情。伊拉克将不会有基督徒。伊拉克将不会有亚述人。兰德和她家人、哈里斯、神职人员和主教们认为只有三天会持续，但实际持续了三年。
English
But eventually, ISIS were defeated. And the goal of creating a blubber. When the government strengthened its power and efforts in fighting ISIS, we could see that all components of Iraqi society were ready to contribute to the liberation of the occupied areas. And they contributed to the fight against ISIS. Hence the reason we see various religious groups within the security forces today. Because ISIS was against humanity, against Iraq, and against the people and civilization. The city was meant to be the pride of the so-called Islamic State. But now, their hold on Raqqa is about to end.
Chinese
但最终，ISIS被击败了。政府加强其力量和打击ISIS的努力时，我们可以看到伊拉克社会的所有组成部分都准备为解放占领地区做出贡献。他们参与了对抗ISIS的战斗。因此，我们今天在安全部队中看到了各种宗教团体。因为ISIS反对人类，反对伊拉克，反对人民和文明。这座城市本来是所谓的伊斯兰国的骄傲。但现在，他们对拉卡的控制即将结束。
English
Slowly and nervously, people started to return to the towns and villages they once called home. I came back here after three years, more than three years I came here. The first one who came to this house from my family was me, to see the house, to see all the town. And it was miserable. When I entered the house, I had, like, still come to my mind all these feelings. And once I entered the house, I couldn’t enter everything because they thought maybe it has some minds or something, you know. Really? Yeah, so I only entered here in this room.
Chinese
慢慢地，人们开始回到他们曾经称之为家的小镇和村庄。我三年后回到了这里，超过三年前我就来到这里了。我的家人中第一个来这所房子的人是我，来看这个房子，看看整个城镇。它是凄凉的。当我进入房子时，我还记得那些感觉。一旦我进入了房子，由于他们认为也许里面有些危险或者什么东西，我无法进入所有的房间，你知道吗？真的吗？是的，所以我只能进入这个房间里。
English
And I saw some ISIS books and boards and all this information, notebooks. How did you feel when you come into your family home? For me, I couldn’t use to stay here. I was struggling every day, crying, asking my dad, let’s go back to Erbil. It’s better for our mental health. Or, you know, I can’t feel home anymore. So why did you decide to come, to stay back home? This is our land, and this is where we belong.
Chinese
我看到了一些ISIS的书和板以及所有这些信息，笔记本。当你进入你的家庭时，你感觉如何？对我来说，我不习惯住在这里。我每天都在挣扎，哭泣，向我的父亲求助，让我们回到埃尔比勒。这对我们的心理健康更好。或者，你知道，我已经无法感受到家了。那么为什么你们决定回来，留在家呢？这是我们的土地，这就是我们属于的地方。
English
And this is where we need to stay and work and develop. For ourselves and for the community here. And always to remind people that this Iraq was our home since many, many centuries ago. And always remind people that this is where we belong. Another one of those villages where people were coming back to is Tel Kaif, where Hala Amir lives. This used to be a strong Christian community. But after the invasion, most of the Christians never returned. Hala and her family are now in the Christian minority.
Chinese
我们在这里需要保持和工作的地点。这是为了我们自己，也为了这里社区。总是提醒人们这个伊拉克是我们的家，从很多很多世纪前就是了。总是提醒人们我们是属于这里的地方。另一个那些村庄的人们回来的是塔尔凯夫，哈拉·阿米尔住的地方。这曾经是一个强大的基督教社区。但是入侵之后，大部分的基督徒从未返回。哈拉和她的家人现在成为基督教少数派。
English
The majority of the population here consists of Muslims. There are only 50 Christian families who returned after the occupation of ISIS. The rest are all Muslims. What is it like being a Christian in this community? Of course I faced many difficulties after returning. Before ISIS there were many Christians here. But after we returned, the Christian population diminished. For example, I do not have many friends here.
Chinese
在这个社区中，大多数人都是穆斯林。在ISIS的占领之后，只有50个基督教家庭回来。其余的都是穆斯林。在这个社区里作为一个基督徒是什么样的？当然，我回到后遇到了很多困难。在ISIS之前，这里有很多基督徒。但是在我们回来后，基督教人口减少了。例如，我现在这里没有很多朋友。
English
I often go to Badnaya or Talas Kuf. At school I was the only Christian here. Which is why I wasn’t able to engage with others. And here we cannot even really dress as we wish. So there are many difficulties that we face. But we thank God for everything. Hala now feels the same as so many others. The pressure of being a minority or being different in your own land.
Chinese
我经常去Badnaya或Talas Kuf。我在学校是这里唯一的基督徒。这就是为什么我不能与他人互动。而且在这里我们甚至不能真的按照自己的意愿穿衣服。所以我们面临很多困难。但我们感谢上帝赐予我们的一切。Hala现在感觉和其他人一样。作为少数派或在你自己的土地上不同所带来的压力。
English
The pressure and the oppression of being a minority. You could feel it. I mean… Still today? Yeah, we are like less than 250,000 in a country of over 40 million people. Rodi Sher is the interim editor-in-chief of EWTN’s partner agency, ASI MENA. He is based in the city of Erbil and has been covering stories of the lives of Christians here in the region. So, many people think that Christians are being treated as second-class citizens. Well, this was for a while.
Chinese
压力和作为少数派的压迫感。你可以感觉到。也就是说…… 今天仍然如此？是的，在这个国家有超过4000万人中，我们只有大约25万。Rodi Sher 是EWTN的合作伙伴机构ASI MENA的临时总编。他位于埃尔比勒市，一直在报道这个地区基督徒的生活故事。所以，很多人认为基督徒被视为二等公民。好吧，这曾经是一段时间的事情。
English
And even we might see it now from time to time. But the situation is way better if we compare it to what happened in 2003, later on in 2010 and recently in 2014. But, as for today, things have changed a lot. People are being treated better, maybe holding better positions. And we can never compare the Christians who are living in Islamic societies to the ones who live in Europe and USA. But, what I can say, it’s better for now. And we hope that it will continue to be good. Rodi was the producer on this assignment, with us as we filmed for a week in Kurdistan in Iraq.
Chinese
我们可能会不时地看到它。但如果我们将现在的状况与2003年、2010年和2014年的情况相比，情况要好得多。但就今天而言，情况已经发生了很大变化。人们得到了更好的对待，也许是在更优越的位置上。而我们无法将生活在伊斯兰社会中的基督徒与生活在欧洲和美国的那些进行比较。但我可以说的是，现在的情况有所改善。我们希望这种状况能够继续保持下去。在伊拉克 Kurdistan 为期一周的拍摄中，Rodi 是这次任务的生产者，而我们是其中的一员。
English
And he said we witnessed little examples here and there of how Christians are treated. For example, when we were filming with Hala in her village of Telkiv, a group of children came around us to play. When one of them said in Arabic that they wouldn’t play with another little girl because she was Christian. The most important thing I believe that should be changed is the mentality. I mean, the education, the mentality, the belief of people about the Christians. Even if you recall when we were shooting at some of the locations in Mosul, some of the kids approached us and they were talking about other Christian kids. And they said we don’t play with them because they’re Christians. The community here needs to be educated.
Chinese
他告诉我们，我们见证了基督徒是如何被对待的许多小例子。例如，当我们和哈拉在提尔基夫村拍摄时，一群孩子围着我们玩。当一个孩子用阿拉伯语说他们不会和另一个小女孩一起玩，因为她是一个基督徒时，最应该改变的是心态。我的意思是教育、人们的思维、对基督徒的信仰。即使你回想一下，当我们在一些摩苏尔的拍摄地点时，一些孩子走近我们，谈论其他基督教小孩。他们告诉我们，我们不和他们玩因为他们是基督徒。这里的人们需要接受教育。
English
And the education should be imposed on people. Because the ignorance is one of the weapons that will destroy societies. If the kids are being told at school that… Because they’re being told you can’t play with Christian children. Yeah, it should be right opposite. We are all citizens of Iraq and we should be treated equally. But today, I mean, I think the new generation has started to realize this. There is difference. We can see the difference that people have started to accept the other who is different from them.
Chinese
教育应该被施加给人。因为无知是会摧毁社会的武器之一。如果孩子们在学校被告知……因为他们告诉你不可以和基督教的孩子玩。是的，它应该是相反的。我们都是伊拉克的公民，我们应该平等对待。但是今天，我 mean，我认为新一代已经开始意识到这种差异。人们开始接受彼此的不同。
English
And this is very important for us. Hala, what does your faith mean to you? What does it mean to be an Iraqi Christian? Being an Iraqi Christian definitely means a lot to me. For Christ said, you are the salt of the earth. You are the candles that are present here. So we Christians are like candles in Iraq. And our goal is to illuminate the darkness here.
Chinese
这很重要。哈拉，你的信仰对你意味着什么？成为伊拉克基督徒意味着什么？作为伊拉克基督徒对我来说意义重大。因为基督说，你们是世上的盐。你们像是这里的光。所以我们在伊拉克的基督徒就像蜡烛一样。我们的目标是照亮这里的黑暗。
English
The Pope’s visit to Iraq in 2021 was seen as a historic trip. Pope Francis being the first Pope in history to make the journey. It was seen as a joyous moment for the country and its people. And something that helped change that negative perception of Christians in the country. Even if for a while. The trip definitely highlighted the country, especially for the minorities in Iraq. It emphasized the difficulties faced by these groups in the country. This allowed civil society organizations and similar institutions to emphasize the Christian presence here.
Chinese
2021年教皇访问伊拉克被视为历史性访问。这是历史上第一位教皇进行这次旅行。对于这个国家和人民来说，这被看作是一个欢欣鼓舞的时刻。而且，这对改变国家对基督徒的负面看法有所帮助。即使只是暂时的。这次旅行无疑提高了国家的知名度，尤其是针对伊拉克的少数族裔。强调了这些群体在这个国家所面临的困难。这使得社会组织和类似机构能够强调这里基督教的地位。
English
We became more visible. And we were able to see the people of the Christians here. I remember at the time we were talking, doing an interview. And you told me that while the visit of Pope Francis is a wonderful thing, you weren’t sure what effect it would have long-term for Christians in Iraq. How much of a difference it would actually make. Do you think it has made any difference? Well, regarding the visit, in the beginning we did not notice the impacts or results of it. But after a few years we started to see the effects of the Pope’s visit to Iraq.
Chinese
我们变得更加显眼。我们还能够看到这里基督徒的人们。我记得当时我们在交谈，进行一次采访。你告诉我，尽管方济各教皇的访问是一件美好的事情，但你不确定它对伊拉克的基督教徒长期会有什么影响。它实际上会带来多大的变化。你觉得它有没有带来任何变化？关于这次访问，在开始的时候我们并没有注意到它的影响或结果。但几年后，我们开始看到教皇访问伊拉克的影响。
English
As the country allowed Christians to have state positions. And organizations came to their aid. Helping them rebuild and supporting the return of refugees. What an incredible, what a historic trip it has been for Pope Francis. When I traveled to Iraq with the Pope in 2021, covering the trip for EWTN, one of the most powerful moments was when Pope Francis stood in the middle of Mosul, surrounded by the rubble and ruins left by ISIS. He stood in silence, remembering all those who had experienced that terror. Father Rahid Emmanuel, head of the Syriac Catholic Churches in Mosul, was one of the main organizers of that trip. No Pope has ever visited this city before.
Chinese
由于国家允许基督徒担任公职，组织也来帮助他们。帮助他们重建并支持难民返回。对于教皇弗朗西斯的这次旅行来说，这真是一个不可思议的，一个具有历史意义的旅程。当我和教皇在2021年访问伊拉克时，为EWTN报道他的行程，其中最强大的时刻之一是教皇站在摩苏尔的中部，周围是被伊斯兰国留下的废墟和废墟。他沉默地站着，记着所有那些经历过那种恐怖的人。莫苏尔的叙利亚天主教会负责人拉希德·埃迈纽尔神父是那次旅行的主要组织者之一。没有哪位教皇曾经访问过这座城市。
English
But this Pope did come here. And he was very brave to do so. He wanted to visit this city where, in fact, the thing that happened to us was like a world war. Or a Hiroshima. Iraq’s Hiroshima. It was a place of torture, flagellation, murder. All of this happened after ISIS occupied the place. But the Pope visited this place to say that we are peacemakers.
Chinese
但是这位教皇确实来到这里。他来此地非常勇敢，因为这座城市发生的事情就像是一场世界大战。或者像广岛。伊拉克的广岛。这是一处受折磨、鞭打和谋杀的地方。这一切都是在伊斯兰国占领该地区之后发生的。然而，教皇访问了这座城市，说我们是和平缔造者。
English
We establish peace. And we are against murder and terrorism. And the Pope truly delivered this message. Today, the city that was once a city of ruins and destruction has started to recover and is being rebuilt. It is being reconstructed. And much of this reconstruction and restoration is happening due to the Pope’s visit. While in Iraq, one of the places Pope Francis visited was the Church of the Immaculate Conception in Karakosh. Inside, he asked the people to rebuild their communities based on forgiveness and fraternity.
Chinese
我们建立和平。我们反对谋杀和恐怖主义。教皇确实传达了这一信息。今天，曾经是废墟和破坏之城的这座城市已经开始恢复并正在重建。它正在被重建。而且由于教皇的访问，很多的重建和修复工作正在进行中。在伊拉克，教皇弗朗西斯参观的地方之一是卡拉克什的纯洁无玷无玷受孕教堂。在里面，他要求人们基于宽恕和兄弟情谊重建他们的社区。
English
When the Pope visited Iraq in 2021, he really emphasized inter-religious dialogue. He asked for harmony, for people to understand the concept of we are all brothers. Has that had an impression, a lasting impression here in the country? Yes and no. I would say the crisis and the disputes, political disputes, and the lack of trust among all of the Iraqi political parties is really a deep wound, still bleeding. We know the hatred, the lack of trust, the what we call all of these memories is still there. Cardinal Louis Raphael Sacco is the head of the Chaldean Catholic Church in Iraq. He was there with Pope Francis when he went to meet one of the most respected scholars of the Shia Muslims.
Chinese
当教皇在2021年访问伊拉克时，他确实强调了宗教对话。他要求和谐，要求人们理解我们都是兄弟的概念。这在这个国家有影响吗？是的，也有不。我会说危机和纠纷，政治纠纷以及所有伊拉克政治党派之间的缺乏信任实际上是一个深切的伤口，仍然在流血。我们知道仇恨、缺乏信任、我们所称的所有这些记忆仍然存在。查尔斯德天主教会在伊拉克的枢机主教路易·拉斐尔·萨科在那里与教皇 Francis 一起会见了一位最受尊敬的什叶派穆斯林学者。
English
The grand Ayatollah, Ali Al-Sistani. The visit of the Pope touched a lot. The culture, the impression of many Muslims, you know, about Christians and Christianity. They know that Christianity is a religion of peace and we are helping all persons in need and we welcome them. I think the visit gave a big hope to all Iraqis because during three days there was nothing. No trouble. No weapons, no attacks. Everybody was looking and following the visit with joy and peace.
Chinese
大阿訇阿里·阿尔-斯泰西安的访问给很多人留下了深刻的印象。这次访问触动了众多穆斯林对基督教和基督教的看法。他们知道基督教是一种和平的宗教，我们帮助所有需要帮助的人，并欢迎他们。我认为这次访问给了所有伊拉克人很大的希望，因为在这三天里没有发生任何事情。没有麻烦。没有武器，没有袭击。所有人带着喜悦和平的心情关注和追随这次访问。
English
EWTN had filmed with Hala Amir four years ago when Pope Francis came to visit. And back then she told me about her wish to push forward and be successful in life. The last time we spoke you told me your ambition was to finish dental school, become a dentist. How are you doing at the moment? I am very proud of myself and happy to have accomplished my dream of becoming a dentist. I recently graduated from the College of Dentistry at the University of Mosul. And hopefully by next year I will be a practicing dentist, able to contribute to building a better society. And I remember that you loved to sing and you loved poetry, you loved everything creative.
Chinese
EWTN 在四年前拍摄了与 Hala Amir 的视频，当时教宗方济各来访。那时候她告诉我她希望推动自己前进并在生活中取得成功。我们上次交谈时，你告诉我你的野心是完成牙科学校，成为一名牙医。你现在怎么样？我为自己感到非常自豪，并为实现了成为牙医的梦想而快乐。我从摩苏尔大学牙科学院毕业了。我希望明年我能成为一名执业牙医，能够为建设一个更好的社会做出贡献。我记得你喜欢唱歌和诗歌，你喜欢所有创造性的事物。
English
Yes, I love poetry for sure. I’m always at church and I am a member of the choir so I always chant Christian hymns. And sometimes I sing in festivals and this is a hobby that I love. You’re a good singer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hala, what’s your dream for the future?
Chinese
是的，我确实喜欢诗歌。我一直在教堂，我是合唱团的一员，所以我总是唱基督教圣歌。有时我还参加节日活动，这对我来说是一个热爱的事业。你是个好歌手。是啊，是啊。嗯，你的未来梦想是什么？
English
Our wish as Iraqis is to have safety and stability. This is our first wish. And for my personal wishes, I want to continue my studies and later teach at the University of Mosul. Right now this is my only wish. And as a young person, Hala, do you ever think of migrating? Of leaving your town, leaving your community, maybe even leaving Iraq? No, we plan to remain here, holding on to our roots as Christians and Khaldeans in Iraq. You want to stay?
Chinese
我们的愿望作为伊拉克人就是希望安全和稳定。这是我们最迫切的愿望。至于我个人的愿望，我想继续我的学业并在摩苏尔大学任教。现在这是我唯一的愿望。作为一个年轻人，Hala，你有没有想过迁移？离开你的城镇，离开你的社区，甚至离开伊拉克？不，我们打算留在这里，作为伊拉克的基督徒和卡德尔人坚守我们的根源。你想留下？
English
Yeah, I want to stay. I love Iraq. It’s your brother and sister. It’s your brother and sister. It’s your brother and sister. It’s your brother and brother and sister. My brother and brother, yeah. My brother and brother and brother, yeah.
Chinese
嗯，我想留下来。我爱伊拉克。这是你的兄弟姐妹。这是你的兄弟姐妹。这是你的兄弟和兄弟姐妹。我的兄弟和兄弟，是的。我的兄弟和兄弟和兄弟，是的。
English
Yeah. I will stay with us. I think of this I’m too obviously. Yeah. When your community was attacked here and your house was set on fire, did you think that was the end of your home? Did you think that you would be coming back again someday? Georgios says in his novel, The 25th Hour, that hope is a plant that grows even on tombstones. So as Christians, we have hope.
Chinese
好的。我们会和我们一起住。我想这是很明显的。是的。当你的社区在这里遭到袭击，你的房子被烧毁时，你认为这是你家结束了吗？你认为你会有一天回来吗？Georgios在他的小说《25小时》中说希望是一种即使在墓碑上也能生长的植物。所以作为基督徒，我们有希望。
English
Are there any traces of ISIS left today in Iraq? No, there are some cells. And we do hear of attacks here and there. But they are not that strong. I think if they do not receive external support, maybe from other countries, they will not be able to do anything else. You see, peace must start internally first, especially for our leaders. They must love Iraq. The language of peace must prevail rather than that of prejudice and of discrimination.
Chinese
今天在伊拉克还有ISIS的痕迹吗？没有，有一些细胞。我们偶尔会听到一些袭击事件。但他们并不强大。我认为如果他们不收到外部支持，比如来自其他国家，他们将无法做任何事情。请注意，和平必须首先从内部开始，尤其是我们的领导人。他们必须热爱伊拉克。和平的语言必须占上风，而不是偏见和歧视的语言。
English
Although there is peace here in Iraq at the moment, with political instability and deeply held religious beliefs in certain areas, the feeling you get from Christians is one of thankfulness, but also worry. Will this happen again? Will this happen again? And if it does, will we have protection? As you know very well, there is no stability. I mean, people, not only Christians, but even others, they don’t trust the future to stay and to hope that the future will be better because of the confusion and also the conflicts. And what gives you hope for the future? For the people of Kurdistan, the people of Iraq, for the church here?
Chinese
尽管目前伊拉克境内和平，但在某些地区存在政治不稳定性以及深刻的宗教信仰，基督徒们感受到的是感激，但也担心。这会再次发生吗？如果会发生，我们将有保护吗？正如你非常清楚的那样，这里没有稳定性。也就是说，人们，不仅是基督徒，还有其他人，他们不相信未来会稳定，也不希望未来会更好，因为混乱和冲突。那么，给未来带来希望的是什么？对于库尔德斯坦的人们，伊拉克的人们，以及这里的教会呢？
English
What gives you hope for the future? I hope Iraq should be a strong state-based and human rights and justice and equality and a real citizenship, not sectarian and not first-class citizen, second-class. Many left their homeland, fled as refugees to places like the United States, Europe and other parts of the world. For them, now with families, the safety and stability in other places is something they can’t give up, despite how much they may miss their homeland. But for those who did stay, they continue to move forward. There is sometimes, like, it comes like you feel you’re weak, you don’t know what you’re doing with this life and what’s the purpose of your existence here. But now we know, like, you know, God gives the hardest battles to the strongest warriors, no? At the monastery of Marbeam, a number of the most valuable manuscripts were saved because of the brave work of a few monks who hid them behind a wall, protecting an entire cultural legacy, hidden away in the hope that one day this community would return to reclaim its heritage.
Chinese
你对于未来的希望是什么？我希望伊拉克能够成为一个以人权和正义为基石的国家，而不是基于教派的。许多人离开了他们的祖国，作为难民逃到了像美国、欧洲和其他世界各地的地方。对他们来说，现在有了家庭，在其他地方的稳定和安全是他们不能放弃的，尽管他们可能非常怀念自己的家乡。但是对于那些留下来的人，他们继续前进。有时候，你可能会觉得你很弱小，不知道在这个生命中的目的和你的存在是什么。但现在我们知道，就像你知道的那样，上帝将最艰难的战斗给予最强壮的战士，不是吗？在Marbeam修道院，由于几位僧侣的勇敢工作，许多最有价值的抄本得以保存，他们把它们藏在墙后，保护了整个文化遗产，希望有一天这个社区能够回归并重新拥有他们的遗产。
English
The testimony we must give our people is that we are the children of life, the children of joy, the children of resurrection. And even despite the destruction that occurred, we thank God that, until now, this monastery is still visible to the eye. What are your dreams for the future of Iraq? A thriving country, a peaceful country, a country that really have the chance and the possibility of every family to live in peace, prosperity, and to really enrich by the diversity that we have, especially for us as a Christian, always being a thriving community. But that’s not just a hope that we wish, but a hope that we would work for as well. In the land where civilisation began, Iraqi Christians, despite all the persecution and the pain, the suffering and the deep sorrow, they’re writing a new story, a new song. And as you’ve seen and you’ve heard, it’s one about courage and perseverance, an incredible testament to the strength of their faith. Until next time, thank you so much for watching and good night from Iraq.
Chinese
我们必须向人民传达的是，我们是生命的儿女，是欢乐的儿女，是复活的孩子。即使发生了破坏，我们也要感谢上帝，直到现在，这座修道院仍然可见。你对伊拉克的未来有什么梦想？一个繁荣的国家，一个和平的国家，一个每个家庭都有机会和可能生活在和平、繁荣和真正丰富多样性，特别是对我们作为基督徒，一直是一个繁荣社区。但这不仅仅是我们的希望，也是我们要为之努力的一个希望。在文明的发源地，尽管所有的迫害和痛苦，苦难和深切的悲伤，伊拉克基督徒正在书写新的故事，一首新歌。正如你所见所听，这是关于勇气和坚持的见证，一个不可置信的力量信仰的惊人见证。直到下次，非常感谢观看，晚安来自伊拉克。